Anthony and Rebecca Holland: Breaking Free and Their Journey of Transformation

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: Hey, everybody. Welcome to an episode of How to Be a Real One Percenter. This is a podcast where we're redefining what it means to be successful—not the just unending drive for one type of success externally at the cost of everything else, but living the life you were really born to live, having all the success that you love, and also being really happy on the inside as well and having that internal success.

I'm really delighted to welcome to the podcast Anthony and Rebecca Holland—our first couple. Firstly, thank you guys for being here. We attempted this twice, haven't we? And it's really great to have this happen the second time. But really appreciate you both being here.

ANTHONY HOLLAND: Thanks for having us. Good to be here.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: We just start this one out by the miracle of this actually happening in the first place. You know, for you to be here, Anthony... this is all about breakthroughs. This whole podcast is really about what's holding us back in life and what happens if we break through that. What could the different version of our life be?

When we first met, to think about that you would be here is quite astounding because you were that guy in the corner of the room that was not going to say anything for a long period of time and didn't feel comfortable with sharing yourself. It became very hard for you. So to come on a podcast, to me, says a lot right in itself. So I want to acknowledge that off the bat.

ANTHONY HOLLAND: Yeah. Definitely was a struggle for me to share things though.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: Yeah. And you just came so far with that. And to do it here on a podcast where so many people are going to be benefiting from it is major acknowledgement right from the start because we have different miracles in life. We do the work and it shows up in different ways for different people. And oftentimes, we feel like it has to be glamorous. But for some people, being able to just share ourselves is a miracle in and of itself. When you're blocked in yourself, it's really painful, isn't it? So the ability to come out is a miracle.

At the same time, when I think about you, Rebecca—you've had your many of your own breakthroughs and what you've done with your life—but another thing I think what's great about having a couple on the call is how important support is. We're nearly five years in that we've been having these conversations. And when I think about the support that you have had and been in the conversation, which is very much a part of why Anthony's had some of the miracles that we're going to hear about today.

I think what we'd all love to know is just hear a little bit about your story. When you arrived, when we started working together, what was it like for you and what brought you to the work, individually and as a couple?

REBECCA HOLLAND: [It was for Anthony.]

ANTHONY HOLLAND: Yeah. For me, it was... I had a big problem with drinking alcohol. I’ve been trying to get help around counselling and seen doctors, taken antidepressants... but none of that was working and I was pretty on a downhill spiral, was out of control. And lucky I’ve got Becks, that she reached out and found you. With coming to see you and then realising or breaking down the stories that I'd created or the beliefs that I had around myself, I was able to understand what problems I had around alcohol and the drinking problem that I had, which was pretty bad.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: It got to a deep state of like a really destructive state, personally and with your family.

ANTHONY HOLLAND: Oh, yeah. And I was using it to hide or mask my problems that I had or not facing things. It got to a point where it could have cost me my life, I suppose.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: I share that background with you in terms of my drugs. I’ve shared my story a lot that I ended up homeless and destitute. As we were on the same path, Anthony... on a path to this life not lasting for very long. And I also know what it takes to turn that around. And not a lot of people do. So I think it's just going to be fascinating to hear about what you did. But before we go there, I want to dive into the story. The end of it is... let's have a celebratory moment here because it's now been...

ANTHONY HOLLAND: In two weeks, it'll be three years.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: Three years. I'm just hoping everybody watching this... that's just a miracle thing to do. It's not easy, is it? Once you start on that pathway, it just takes you over. And it's hard to explain how, but you have the best intentions to stop, but it just keeps carrying you, doesn't it?

ANTHONY HOLLAND: Yeah. And doing the work with you, it's understanding addiction more now. Addiction's a lot deeper than what people really understand or how they think about it. People think you should be able to just stop, but it takes over. For a good year, it was backwards and forwards where I wasn't quite getting or understanding it. And then it had been one of the darkest moments that everything sunk in.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: So what would you say to people out there? Because there'll be a lot of people out there that struggle in so many different types of addiction—alcohol, drugs, work, food, relationships, anger. There was a period there where it was a bit of a struggle, going a bit back and forth. What would you say did it for you in the end? Because you definitely had a shift where you just got it and said "that's it." And it's not been easy, but you've done it. So what would you say to people that are going, "Hey, what do I need to do if I want to change that?"

ANTHONY HOLLAND: It's setting yourself up to succeed as well. It's putting yourself in the right places or not going to certain events or being around certain people—like work dos or birthdays, parties—lots of things that I now don't go to because I want to give myself every chance. But also, with my story, it was so easy to fall back into having another drink because you think that was the easy way out. But it's the addiction side which has taken over.

And the one thing was being committed. I was never really fully committed to it. So being committed was a big part. And then there was understanding the addiction. And it took me that period of time or that year whatever it was to really understand what addiction is.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: As far as that drinking was concerned and where you've gone with it, "committed" is the word that I would just use. I remember we had some pretty straightforward conversations, right? Because you had good intentions the whole time—you wanted to do it for Becks, you wanted to do it for your kids—but, and while that's a really good intention, it wasn't working because at the end of the day... you remember our conversations of, "Hey, do you want this for yourself?" You got to the point where it was like, "Hey, if you don't, then there's no purpose in us continuing these conversations." And you really went away and got there. And when you did commit, there was a change, right? And you've been committed ever since then. And it's something to really celebrate.

ANTHONY HOLLAND: Yeah. And part of that was that conversation with you: "There's not much more you can do for me because you've given me all the tools, and I’ve got to start using them in committing to this." That sunk in as well. Unfortunately, it took a bit of time to get there, but I got there. Still now it's about putting yourself in the right places and around the right people as well as understanding that you can't just go to one event or "I just want to..." It's about setting myself up to succeed now as well.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: Well, addiction's quite powerful, isn't it? And if you don't have that commitment first and foremost, but then a support team—making decisions like "I'm not going to those places if alcohol's going to be there"—because why would you? You have to have something really powerful to counter the power of that addiction. And it's got to be strong because addiction... we both know, right? It takes you over and you get lost in it and start to lose control of that.

ANTHONY HOLLAND: Yeah. And that's part of the addiction I didn't understand. For some people think you can just stop, shouldn't be that bad. But that's the addiction side of it. It sucks you back in so fast.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: That's quite important to talk about because a lot of times people think when people are addicted to alcohol or drugs or anything, like they're a bad person. And I think it's quite important to know how that person under there has really good intentions usually; they're just lost.

So, you mentioned earlier that you made a tie between the stories. We started to discuss why are you addicted? Because people just think we get addicted to a substance. But one of the things we discussed is that's actually not true. It's not addicted to a substance; we're addicted to all the things that we believe that we're deriving out of it. And those things are related to how we're feeling inside and the stories that we have. So what can you share with us that you found about how the story links?

ANTHONY HOLLAND: For me, the big thing was breaking it down with this... going through that whole thing of the stories and the beliefs that we created was, it goes right back to my childhood, around my dad, where I grew up.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: This is about your dad, right?

ANTHONY HOLLAND: Yeah.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: So something kind of major happened with your dad recently, right?

ANTHONY HOLLAND: Yeah. My belief was my dad didn't care. Didn't love me. Sorry.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: No, don't be. This is all about being real, Anthony. And this is the kind of feelings that people have. And I just want to stop and say your courage is just going to make a difference to so many people, because this is the kind of thing people have going on but don't talk about. And for you to come on this podcast and share it as openly and honestly as you are, man, that's just pure courage. So don't apologise. I hope that you pave the way for other people to get honest about what's actually going on with them. Because there's a lot of people stuffing in a lot of things. But I think your emotions really have to do with that your dad recently passed.

ANTHONY HOLLAND: Yeah. It's still kind of raw and emotional. But through the work we've done, it gave me the ability to be able to reach out to my dad myself and break down those boundaries and understand them. I reached out and he got to meet his grandkids. Well, he got to talk to them. And unfortunately, May last year, he passed away.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: Yeah. But because of that story, you didn't speak to him for a long time. And there's a lot of people out there, Anthony, that that's how they feel. They have a judgment about their parent or a loved one and they just cut off from them. The thing is, is that oftentimes when those people die, those people never did get a chance to say it. But I know because we spoke about it, you didn't just get to talk to him, you got to say what there was to say and get complete with him, didn't you? To let him know, "Hey, this is who I knew you really were in my life."

ANTHONY HOLLAND: Without doing the work there, I would've never have reached out to him. And one of the things I do is I just called him and just said "I love him and I forgive him for everything." I can't remember exactly how it went. He was so shocked. But that just opened the door. It was part of my journey and my chapter of closing or breaking down those stories and beliefs that I'd created even though none of them were true. And that was a big thing then knowing that so all that bad feeling and all the hatred I had around that was gone.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: And the real change is to you, isn't it? At the end of the day, whether he's here or not here, this has freed you up to live your life. Because when we feel that way towards a person, we're holding on to that inside and it's ruining our lives. We're filled with the hatred. We're filled with the resentment. And it doesn't feel good. Like if you imagine if he had died and you hadn't spoken to him, how would that feel now? Once, I mean, you can still complete when someone's died, but it's not the same as when you have the opportunity to say it to them now while they're here and you did. That will never be taken away from you. You will always know that that's what you did. And he died knowing, being complete.

ANTHONY HOLLAND: Yeah, definitely. So the feeling if I hadn't reached out and done that, it would be a lot worse, a lot harder to stomach or live with. And also, I gave him the chance to meet his grandkids, even though it was only over a Zoom call. We never actually got to go up and meet him. But he was proud as punch.

REBECCA HOLLAND: He had pictures of the kids that we'd sent him. He'd print them out and put them below the TV.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: To actually see them and talk with them and connect with them. So that is what addressing your story, that is what courage does. You know, we talk a lot in our work about ego. And ego is... I use it a little bit differently. But for me, ego is an identity. But it is still like when we get into that identity, it's about "I am right. Somebody is wrong. We have to pass the blame. It's your fault that I'm feeling the way that I'm feeling." And what ends up happening is we distance from these relationships. We don't have them. And then there's been numbers of times where people have died.

I completed with my parents. They both died a number of years ago. I had a similar story: "My mum didn't love me and they loved my brother more than they loved me." And that's what got me on into addiction as well. When I woke up to it, I went and said to them, "Hey, I just had this whole complete missed picture of you and I apologise for it," and I thanked them for who they were. When they died, look, I mean, obviously miss them and would love to see them, but I feel complete inside. Because I know what would have happened had I not said that... we take those feelings forward. So this is massive stuff that you're talking about here.

And, you know, had you not got committed, had you not done the work... because on our last episode we had Kaushik who does the filming, and he just talked about fear and how to get over fear and what happens when you do. And most people just keep that fear, they hold onto it and they don't do it. They don't have that courage to make that move. But just look at what it opened up for you and for your father, for your family, for you, for your children, for Becks... that just changed the whole dynamic.

So, yeah, I use the word "gold" has to come out because what I'm hoping here from those of you that have done the work and are kind enough to come on the podcast to share some of the gold nuggets... This is, man, this is gold bar stuff here because we go through our life and don't do that. And then we wake up one day and say, "Well, that person's gone. I never said to them what I wanted to say to them. I held onto a story about them that was never true and it ruined the relationship." So this is big stuff.

So can you say a little bit more about... you said they're not true, right? Because when you said your dad didn't love you... And also, I think it's important to mention that you didn't feel good about yourself when you believe that, right? Of course, if we believe our parents don't love us and you grew up in a place that you thought wasn't the best place or whatever, and you had judgments about that, then it lowers your self-worth. So what can you say about what'd you do to get past that story?

ANTHONY HOLLAND: The stories, you know, say it was the belief around my dad or where I grew up... I was working through it and talking through it and then breaking it down that, no, these are stories that I’ve made up, and that they're not true and that you are good enough. There's still moments where you have those thoughts creep back in. So it's being able to catch those moments and say, "No, is this true or not true?"

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: But they're patterns, aren't they? They're patterns that you would have decided way back then. You decided, A, your dad didn't love you, B, from whatever house you grew up in or whatever that meant you weren't worthy. And I'm not making light of that. We all have these stories created a long time ago when you didn't even know that you did it. And so they become patterns.

But you really went deep and started to shift those stories. So you get a big leap. And then when they do come back, you're like, "Ha ha, I know what you... I know what this is. I'm not buying into you this time and I'm moving forward." And it's obvious. You don't even need to say anything about what your genuine self is like, because when you address those stories, what you get is your... you start being your genuine self. We're just seeing it, right? Do we need to even say anything? Cause here it is right here. The honesty and openness...

I think it surprised you when he came out and shared that time. Remember I was in a group and he just came out and shared the whole thing because you had gone through a whole year, Anthony. You hadn't said anything... I think you were just coming up on just over a year or something at that point sober. And you just... and then when you did share, I mean, it was just like, there was Anthony, right? The real one. And you've been getting more and more of him over time. So it's just been super inspiring to watch your journey. In three years is an extreme accomplishment, but for what I see of you, you're just starting and there's so much more to come.

We might come back to you as well, but when I go to Becks here for a moment... because when in the beginning you shared that it was quite a low point for you and one of your saving graces, if I'm sure you won't mind me saying this, is that lovely lady and partner of yours on your right hand side there showed up with you and was there every step of the way. So as a... in the beginning Becks, you came to support Anthony, right. And you were just there and you're a massive support for him.

But then all of a sudden, we started to have some conversations as well. Cause the work can apply to everyone, right? We all have things that if we can address them—these blocks that we may not even know that we've got—you know, your version of "connect to more of your genuine self." And that just has... when I say that, people are like, "What do you mean?" But then everything in your life starts to flow.

REBECCA HOLLAND: But because we were doing the work together, we're so entwined. Like he would step up, but I'd still be here. So then I'd have to meet him here, even though it was his journey, I had work to do myself. And if we didn't meet in the middle, then it wasn't going to go anywhere. And he wouldn't go any further because I would have been weighing him down or vice versa. Just because everything is all entwined, which I guess is natural when you're in a relationship.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: That's the important thing that you're saying, right? Because there's patterns that happen between people. So we have our own patterns. So for example, Anthony, you've got "I'm not loved." And if you didn't believe you were loved by your parents, who's your whole world at that age, then you believe that "well, I deserve that." And the story goes on: "I must deserve it. I'm not good enough. There's something wrong with me." So that's what you bring to the relationship. And then you'll have your story. We all have our story. And that will interact.

And so when Anthony was breaking out of that story, you... I love what you're saying that this is... I'm just so great that you're on together because we haven't had to... we haven't had a chance yet to address this dynamic. It's like, Anthony's now here, but your dynamic is still in that whole pattern and it just doesn't work. Does it? It's like, oh, wait, it's almost like, "Where's that other person that was engaged in that pattern with me?" And so, yeah, you had the courage to start looking at, "Hey, what’s my part?"

Right. And it's important to know that when there's a problem going on, it can be like in the case of addiction or other things, it can look like one person has the issue, but it's actually... there's two people involved, right? There's always the two sides of it. And that's why I just have so much respect and inspiration from you two really about that. You both showed up and you showed up with a complete willingness to do it... well, it took a little bit for the complete willingness, but you definitely got there and actually you just started to come along.

Interestingly, some of the things that you did were about the relationship and about assisting Anthony, but then we started to discuss some things just about your own life and your own journey. So love to hear from your story as well as to what's something in the work that's made a difference for you and maybe just a bit of your story about what started to happen when you began to do the work yourself.

REBECCA HOLLAND: Yeah, aside from obviously helping Ants and the sobriety side of it, it was learning—and I didn't realize it, I don't know if you made me aware of it—but we started discussing like my dad and abandonment and stuff like that. And then I think I only did one or two sessions about it and it just clicked and everything unraveled. And the key words were—cause I was very young when my parents separated—the key words that you said is "he just left, he didn't leave you, he just left." And as soon as I said that in my head, it was everything just unraveled. Stuff between us, stuff like earlier on... like with his drinking, it was like, "What did I do? Why is he doing this to me? Why is he leaving me?" Made it about me, but it wasn't about me. That was his issue. That was his drinking. And that was just my abandonment insecurities coming out, I guess.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: I tell you what, Becks, that time... because people come on this podcast and a lot of times people talk about how long it took a period of time to get through things. And when we'd uncovered that your father had left the family and the way that it happened... I'm expecting, "Okay, we'll do a few on this," right? And so we came back. It was, I think we did just one.

REBECCA HOLLAND: It was literally one session because you kept going, "Surely there's something more to work on." And I'm like, "Honestly, there's nothing. I don't know what else to say."

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: And then you said... because so just to describe that a little bit more, when things happen, okay, parents leave... Just say a little bit more about that because the whole story, like this is what children do, right? You made up a story: "Your dad doesn't love you." You made up a story: "He left me." So the thing is, is that children make everything... This is so important what you're saying. And that's where we started. We all make everything about us. "You said that to me, you hurt me." It's like, no, they're just being them.

And so we were shifting the perspective on that. We were looking at your belief that your dad left you because that... Do you mind if I say a little bit about the dynamic and how that worked in addiction? So if you feel abandoned, then think about when Anthony's doing what he's doing with addiction, that's just triggering all that abandonment. "He's leaving me," right? And so you're charged. And so you can't be that space for your husband that you really want to be because you're charged because it's going on for you.

And when you look, but that's what children do. We make everything about us and we don't even know that we do it. So if a parent leaves, "they didn't leave. They left me." But the thing is, is that it doesn't stay in childhood. We get to adult, we get into a partnership or a marriage and it stays. And I think I remember we having this conversation about there's a two-letter word in that thing that's destroyed a lot of your life. You really thought about it and I said, "Which word is it?” And you said "me." And so you, because your original was, "he left me" and then you just dropped the me. "He just left." And you're right. Cause you came back. I remember now, as you're saying it, you got it with Anthony, you got it with... it was just like with everywhere, wasn't it? You just, the "me" left the whole story.

REBECCA HOLLAND: 100%. But with that, we also went to a completely different level between us. And it was really his true genuine self. I think it was about August last year. And it just... yeah. By me letting that go, we both just shot up. So to speak.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: Well, tell us about like, what is... what's the difference? What was the difference as you get into your genuine self versus story reacting to story?

REBECCA HOLLAND: Some of it's hard to explain because there was like this different connection between us. Like obviously we're husband and wife, but there was a different connection. And I can't explain that connection cause it was next level. But yeah, he just opened up even more. There was just, I can't put it into words, the difference, but we were just our true genuine selves. I guess maybe cause I'd let go of all the stories that I was holding onto, which he was entwined in, even though he wasn't the original cause, but I'd made it about me... and that was his sobriety and his drinking. So I guess me letting that go over the past 18 years of our relationship, just going, "Well, it wasn't him..."

ANTHONY HOLLAND: How freeing is that?

REBECCA HOLLAND: Yeah. I guess it just opened me up more. I guess that's the only way I can describe it. You know, I was more my true genuine self.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: And it opened the space for him, right? Because then Anthony didn't have that to react to. He had the space to then come into himself. So it is hard to explain, isn't it? But you're just... one opens the space for the other and then you get more to your genuine self and then the other one opens the space. And this is what we all actually want. What we want in a relationship is connectedness. We want that intimacy, we want connectedness, but it's also, we're afraid of it. When we've got these stories, it's fearful to open ourselves up, right? If you're disconnected from yourself, how can you be connected with another human being?

REBECCA HOLLAND: And you're more at peace. Like, I don't know how else to explain it. You're like on the inside; you're more at peace. You're more relaxed. You're more, you're not holding everything in. So you are more relaxed.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: But peacefulness is something that comes with your genuine self, isn't it? Because there's nothing to fear. There's no story. You're just you. And you realise, "What do I mean, I'm not good enough? What do I mean, I got abandoned? That's just perceptions that I’ve had about the way life... life's just happening." And then you're free to just be right.

REBECCA HOLLAND: But it took us to that different level of what do we want out of our life? Where do we want to go? What do we want to create? So it opened up all of that opportunity, you know, like we want to live our life and this is the way we want to do it.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: On that note, there's something I want to share because there's something in the work that we've talked about is the ability to create things in your life and how the mind can either help or hinder. I'm talking about the house. If you're happy to share that, do you remember those sessions around... so you guys were selling your house and you want, you had this beautiful place that you were getting, that was like the family dream, the space that you wanted for the kids. It was going to be a beautiful house, right? And I’ve seen it since you've done it. It's a beautiful house now, that's for sure.

So do you remember those conversations? Because I just remember you saying, “Look, this has not happened because you had some buyers remember. And then that got... went a little bit pear-shaped and I can't remember the belief Becks, but you were like...

REBECCA HOLLAND: I wasn't letting it go. Like, even though I wanted to move forward, I was still holding onto the house. And for me, the attachment was... when we bought the house, my mom was still alive. And then, so I was like, "This is our forever home." And mom was part of us buying it. In 11 years on, it was kind of like, "What are we doing here?" Like, even though we'd renovated and stuff, I was just like, "The kids are getting bigger. We're running out of space. Like this isn't working." And I thought I was like, "Yep, cool. I'm ready to let go." But I was still holding onto it because I was just like, "Mom was still part of that house, but she'll be part of wherever I go."

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: Absolutely. She's in there. Well, I remember the thing was, is that for weeks, because you guys put it on the market, just one thing after another wasn't going right. And you're just like, "Oh, it's not going to happen." And then I said, "Becks, is there something going on?" And you said, "I think I'm holding onto the house." And do you remember what happened? I remember the day that you did that and you said, "Right, I'm ready to let it go." And then whoosh that the stuff that was the blockages start to happen, the place that you wanted, you got.

And the thing is, is that this is... we get past this, what does it open up the opportunity for? So I'm so thankful that you guys have coming on this podcast and sharing this story because that's what I want people to know. We go through our lives... and when I was in Seattle looking up at the Space Needle when I was drugged out and homeless, I heard those words that "there's an infinite potential for this life... I'm meant to be up there." And I just got this vision for what life could be.

When you come here and say, "Look, by just addressing some of the things that you had been believing, these are the things that are happening." And you guys have accomplished so much in these few years. But I just get the sense that there's just so much more to come.

We were having a chat just before we started about your children because I’ve had a chance to speak with a couple of them—amazing children. Really, you guys have done an incredible job because they're really cool kids.

REBECCA HOLLAND: Louis was probably about two years ago because it was into Anthony's sobriety. And obviously, yeah, even though I thought I was protecting them, they're children. You know, they might not understand what's going on, but they know things are wrong. And for Louis being the oldest, I guess he saw a lot more.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: You could see that he had taken it on, right? He was having the stories about... even though Anthony was going through his problems and you guys were, he was doing the same as the rest. He was taking on that "that's about me. They don't love me."

REBECCA HOLLAND: Yeah. And even now, like, something will happen and there's still a little trigger there for him. So we have to sit down and go through the whole process to eliminate it and break it down. And we always explain to the children, if we hadn't have done this... like, they've been exposed to this whole world of how to break down the story so they can go on into their adulthood and hopefully not carry any trauma.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: Well, certainly know what to do with it, right? Even your youngest, like, you've got a superstar in the world of gymnastics—your youngest, Manet.

REBECCA HOLLAND: She's in the middle, yeah.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: Oh, she's in the middle. Sorry. But, um, yeah, absolutely a superstar. But the pressures on children, on anyone... I remember working with her and just the stresses and pressures that she... Was she eight?

REBECCA HOLLAND: She would have been eight.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: Eight when we worked together. You think that they don't know a lot and they're just kids, but when you really feel the failures, they know a lot. They feel pressures. It's amazing that you guys have opened the space for them. And that's what's really cool is that they're now able to say... don't imagine what's going to happen, how they're going to live their life differently, knowing that what they believe isn't necessarily true. What if you had the skills to know, "Hey, that's not about me. That's about them. And I'm just going to... I'm fine. I'm great who I am."

If this is a... it just goes on, right? I love this concept of space that you brought up, Becks, because when you do your work and you clear yourself, that's precisely what happens and people step into it, don't they? Anthony steps into your space and at a new level, you step into his space. The kids are now doing it.

When parents come and they do the work, they say, "How can I stop my children from getting these stories that I got?" And I say that you can't, they're going to get their stories, but what you can do is one, you can see it, but two, keep being your genuine self. And they see that, but you also will recognize when they have a story. So your kids are just going to have the most amazing opportunity because when children have those stories and parents don't recognize that that's what it is... we blow it up. "Oh, you don't feel good about yourself. Okay. Well, let's discover all the different ways that you don't feel good about yourself." Like, why don't you just find out that that's actually just not even true at the start and you're great?

ANTHONY HOLLAND: So, what's the stories you like without saying, I would never even looked at or thought about looking at the stories.

REBECCA HOLLAND: I don't even think you'd be here today. You were so far at rock bottom. It wasn't funny.

ANTHONY HOLLAND: Yeah. I got into counseling and stuff to try and think that would help, but...

REBECCA HOLLAND: Even the medications, like it, just made them so much worse.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: Well, you got to find out at the end of the day, "Why is this going on?" What's happening inside of here that's got me on the cycle? And if you have the courage like you do, and you both did, then you can start to address it. But the thing is, is once you do, you go, "Wow, was it that straightforward?"

ANTHONY HOLLAND: It all makes sense. I mean, obviously there's still an addiction side, because addiction is still, you know, it does take control. But it gave me a lot of understanding about what stories I believe. Being able to break them down was the start of the journey to really get true and honest with myself.

REBECCA HOLLAND: But it's also the outside world. I don't know if the word adjusting is right, but this is who Anthony is. It's not who Anthony was. They treat him like Anthony was. He's not that person anymore.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: And it's not easy, right? When you have people that you love and your friends and your family, and you're saying that to them and they feel hurt, but you say, "Look, we care about you. We're not just going to jeopardize our whole everything, right?" Especially where you've been quite open about where Anthony got to, it wasn't a pretty place. It wasn't going to last much longer. So what's worth that? What birthday party is worth jeopardizing that?

ANTHONY HOLLAND: Well, the big thing I think for me as well is actually being open and honest about it, owning it, like really put it out there, which I'm doing more now. To start off with... I just wasn't sure how to go about things. But then I'm more open to people that say, "Look, I had a drinking problem or I don't drink." But I'm not on the roof preaching at that to everyone.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: Like, I mean, it just, why wouldn't you, right? People feel ashamed of them. I talk about my addiction years all the time. It's like, "Why do you talk so much about them?" And I'm like, well, A, I wouldn't be here talking any of this if it hadn't been for that. And B, one of the things I’ve discovered is that we just don't feel like we can talk about everybody's got stuff. We all have stuff going on, everyone without exception. But we don't feel that we can talk about it. We feel more and more like we have to push ourselves into something that we're not. And that's not helpful to us because all we're doing is reinforcing to ourselves "I'm not good enough being who I am." So why wouldn't you be okay? And I always say, look, if people are really... it's like, "Oh, I might lose loved ones." And I'm like, if they're really a loved one who cared about me, that's not going to change it.

REBECCA HOLLAND: Oh, exactly. And that's on them. That's not on you. Cause you're just being your true self. You're not being mean or nasty. It's actually not about them. It's about "this is who I am and this, I can't come here." You know, it's not about them.

ANTHONY HOLLAND: I mean, and sometimes with the addiction and drinking side, a lot of times people only seen that fun side, or the life of the party, but there was more to it after that. Which they don't see.

REBECCA HOLLAND: They didn't see the behind the scenes of what was going on.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: Which is the down part of the cycle, right? You get the up to, cause you get the addictive thing, the drinking and whatnot to feel better. But the moment you do that, you're on the slippery slope of all the guilt and all the "why did I do that?" and all the, yeah, everything. And so, it did. And then we get to that low again. "I need the drink again to feel better for a few minutes."

REBECCA HOLLAND: You know, and so the up and down, as you know, we talked about was, yeah, definitely. And that's the cycle you get stuck in.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: Yeah. It's called the law of diminishing returns. So with addiction, basically you need more of whatever you're having to get less, but the lows get lower. So it just gives you diminishing returns, but we're stuck in it.

But one of the reasons I’m so appreciative that you've come and shared your story is it doesn't matter where you start. Like you guys are doing some incredible things in your life. And I know you've got a business, you've built your beautiful home, you've got your plans for your kids. And sometimes though, it's just about, we're not starting from a great place, right? And I think people need to know that that's okay. Cause I think people sometimes say, "I'm not ready to start the conversation... I don't feel good enough to start the conversation." I'm like, that's precisely when to start the conversation because you're feeling that low. But people feel ashamed of it. I'm like, no, we just, honesty is what's required. And that's what you guys are bringing this massive gift today to help people to understand that it's okay to be where you're at and just start and get honest about, "Hey, this is where things are."

Because what my work has shown me is people might be surprised at just how much people are going through. We don't like to talk about it, but behind the scenes, people are just going through a lot. And it's important for people to know that's part of life and there's nothing to be ashamed about. It's not an easy gig, life, is it?

ANTHONY HOLLAND: It's a bit vulnerable, we're like, we're all vulnerable and let's just put it out there. You can't hide from it.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: Yeah. Yeah. I just watching you, Anthony, just, I can't help but think of you four years ago, just... I would say, "Anthony, say something," and he's like, covering his face. And now, sharing at this level of vulnerability... I hope what people can take out of it is, I say it all the time and I lived it too, like, it doesn't matter where you are. You have a great life to live, but it's not going to just knock on your door. You've got to say yes to it. You have to say, "Yeah, you know what, I'm going to commit to living that one."

REBECCA HOLLAND: And that's also remembering the past is the past. The future hasn't happened yet. Yes, you can create what your direction you're wanting to go in or what you're wanting, but here and now is your life. You know, you can't live in the past.

ANTHONY HOLLAND: We can't live in the future either way, so it's got to be, you've got to be present.

REBECCA HOLLAND: You're here and now.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: I think what I need to do is get some bottles for this podcast. And when we get gems like that, we bottle that one up, right? Because how many of us live in the past.

REBECCA HOLLAND: And that's where it's hard with friends because they're still looking at Anthony as the drinking Anthony. They're not looking at Anthony as "this is who he is now."

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: And you know, it's interesting, isn't it? So we move on. "This is who I am." Why do we feel so stuck in life that we have to live in a past that "this is who I am"?

REBECCA HOLLAND: I think because society normalises drinking, but why can't it be normal not to drink?

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: Well, it's also because we perceive people to be a certain way and that's who we become friends with—our perception of the person. And when they change dramatically, we're still dealing with that person. And it's hard to actually move forward with it because we just form the story about, it's another part of the story. They're not in a relationship with Anthony. They're in a relationship with their story of Anthony. So when he changes, their story doesn't match anymore. And it brings up fear, right? It brings up their own insecurities potentially.

I’ve found people do one of two things usually. They either go for the ride and they go, "Hey, it doesn't mean they have to stop drinking or anything like that, but it means I'm going to look at myself and why am I stuck in the past?" There's an opportunity to do that. Or you'll, I'm sure you found this out. They'll embed the other way, but then it just usually kind of just naturally... sometimes something is over, and it's okay. There'll be somebody else there for them that's more of a match because it's not working anyway.

ANTHONY HOLLAND: Sometimes recognizing that now we understand they have stories as well. So it's not a problem.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: Another bottle moment. You know what? We're going to be here for ages... I'm going to call them bottle moments now, maybe instead of gold, but these things that you're saying that it's really important, right? They just have stories too. And once you understand that we stop blaming people, we stop making them wrong. Understand why they are the way they are.

REBECCA HOLLAND: Yeah. Well, when you come from your true, genuine self, you're not coming from a point of anger at them either. You kind of, you just accept them. That's who they are. You know, you don't make it about them. There's nothing there.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: And then you move on. Well, I can't thank you two enough. I think we are coming to the end of this episode, but I have to bring it back. I feel like we were just unpacking quite a bit of stuff. Part two, I think I sense it that we'll have to be a part two here because there is a lot more to say, isn't there?

ANTHONY HOLLAND: Yeah. It's hard to explain it all, but that's the hard part and get it out there.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: Oh, look, I probably have no idea how much somebody is going to listen to this and just, it gives them permission to say, "Hey, I can be honest." It's just a massive gift, you know, you two coming on this.

So look, I want to say thanks, but is there anything before we finish that you would say is one thing? If somebody was watching this and saying, "Hey guys, this work is all about living your best life..." What's one thing you would say that like wherever they are now, what would you say for them to take a leap and say, "What's something that could put into place today?"

REBECCA HOLLAND: Accept where you are. And if you're wanting to change, find the stories that you've created in your mind that's caused you to get to where you are. And it's okay that you're there, but break down those stories.

ANTHONY HOLLAND: The thing about knowing is questioning it, saying, "Do you know that those things are true?" You know, that's honest. Is that true and honest? And really challenge it and really ask those questions. Cause you know, that's when now I understand that is when I start to break those things down.

REBECCA HOLLAND: One of our biggest sayings we say to each other, like if Anths comes home and he'll be like, "Oh, such and such is thinking this." "Do you know that?" He's like, "No, I don't." "And what are you doing in their head? Get out of their head. You know, like, don't worry about what other people are thinking. Like who cares what they're thinking?" Like, if you're going to make the change one, you've got to be ready for it. If you're not ready for it, you're not going to do it.

ANTHONY HOLLAND: You start to love yourself as well. You know, that's where you put everything else first, but put yourself first. Cause if you don't do that, things may happen, but it will take a lot longer to happen.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: Yeah. One of my examples is you get on the airplane and what do they always say? "Place the oxygen mask over yourself first before assisting others." Right. As if you passed out, you're not going to be able to help your child or anyone.

ANTHONY HOLLAND: I always think that we should be helping everyone else first to feel better. I think feel better about yourself, but you need help first.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: I feel like that's just a big exclamation point on what has been an amazing conversation. So, look, we'll bring this to a close, but let me just say like from the heart here, thank you two, for not just being here, but for being as open and honest as you can. That's what the hope for me was on this podcast, that we could be a space to be genuine and to share what could happen when you get genuine, when you're willing to look within yourselves. And this has just been an incredible episode. So, thank you both for being here. I really appreciate it.

REBECCA HOLLAND: Thanks for having us.

ANTHONY HOLLAND: Thanks for having us.

SRIDHAR KRISHNAMURTI: All right. And thank you for watching. And please join us for our next episode of How to Be a Real One Percenter. We look forward to seeing you next time.

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